Perun Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 17 minutes ago, Perun said: What was the first two leaks I found it 🙂 https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/classified-challenger-tank-specs-leaked-online-for-videogame/ and https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/classified-tank-specs-leaked-on-war-thunder-game-forums-again/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurelix Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) I had a Chinese translate 3 of these. 1. (Steel?) Tip [very top of shell] 2. Tungsten Carbide Core [3rd from bottom] 3. Bottom Screw [2nd from bottom] Now i dont know why there would be a bottom screw, maybe its also made from penetrator material to kinda hold the carbide core in place as its penetrating? Edited June 3, 2022 by Laurelix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurelix Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) [Deleted] Edited June 3, 2022 by Laurelix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Przezdzieblo Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 31 minutes ago, Laurelix said: I had a Chinese translate 3 of these. 1. (Steel?) Tip [very top of shell] 2. Tungsten Carbide Core [3rd from bottom] 3. Bottom Screw [2nd from bottom] Now i dont know why there would be a bottom screw, maybe its also made from penetrator material to kinda hold the carbide core in place as its penetrating? Steel tip is to protect the core from aerodynamic heating. Bottom screw is for retaining tungsten carbide core (added the most probably for boosting residual penetration and behind armour effect) both during launch and landing.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurelix Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) [Deleted] Edited June 3, 2022 by Laurelix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurelix Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Just now, Przezdzieblo said: Steel tip is to protect the core from aerodynamic heating. Bottom screw is for retaining tungsten carbide core (added the most probably for boosting residual penetration and behind armour effect) both during launch and landing.  That would make sense for the tip. Even if the tip is not tungsten and calculated as steel, i think the L-O would still give more or less the same value at 90% as Chinese figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiedzmin Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Laurelix said: 584 Pixels = 630mm Penetrator Length counting penetrator length with ballistic cap - big brain  please stop spamming forum with all that crap... Edited June 3, 2022 by Wiedzmin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurelix Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Wiedzmin said: counting penetrator length with ballistic cap - big brain  please stop spamming forum with all that crap... [Deleted] Edited June 3, 2022 by Laurelix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurelix Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) https://arca.live/b/apfsdscharts/51565398 The pixel measuring i did on DTC10-125 was on a image that wasnt perfectly straight so i re-did it on this site. Projectile Length: 672mm Tungsten Penetrator: 615mm (Provided that the bottom screw holding tungsten carbide core is actually made from WHA) Steel Tip Length: 16mm Tungsten Carbide Core Length: 68mm Edited June 3, 2022 by Laurelix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Przezdzieblo Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 I don't wanna rain on your parade of pixel measure, but be adviced to remember that point of measure matters. Obturator ring is wider than sabot itself. In case of 125 mm 3BM42 APFSDS obturator diameter is max. 129,4 mm. If you base your estimates of projectile length on diameter/width which is overstated, you would get also overstated length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Just as a matter of interest, is ammunition for this gun cross compatible with Soviet/Russian guns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Cheers. Not that the Russians have got through their stocks yet I daresay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Jones Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) nm Edited June 3, 2022 by Harold Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P Lakowski Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Why on earth is anyone using "Tungsten Carbide Core", those went out in the dark ages , when every one realized that rod strength was far more important than rod hardness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Przezdzieblo Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 It is used to enhance residual penetration. During the last phase of armour penetration process, when rod velocity drops below hypervelocity, remains of WHA penetrator loses it's piercing potential. It got suboptimal shape (mooshroom), it is eroding no more. But that velocity, circa 1000 m/s, is still quite good for rigid penetrator like WC core. It can make a hole just like it did in "dark ages". You can check Rheinmetall patent from 2019 on long rod penetrator with hard, rigid subcore in end part of rod. click   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P Lakowski Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Przezdzieblo said: It is used to enhance residual penetration. During the last phase of armour penetration process, when rod velocity drops below hypervelocity, remains of WHA penetrator loses it's piercing potential. It got suboptimal shape (mooshroom), it is eroding no more. But that velocity, circa 1000 m/s, is still quite good for rigid penetrator like WC core. It can make a hole just like it did in "dark ages". You can check Rheinmetall patent from 2019 on long rod penetrator with hard, rigid subcore in end part of rod. click   Sounds good in theory but with out actual peer reviewed research papers , its still in the dark-ages. any one got any research papers in this are? Edited June 3, 2022 by P Lakowski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Przezdzieblo Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Maybe. But it is no more just on paper, Chinese just did it. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harkonnen Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 55 minutes ago, P Lakowski said: Sounds good in theory but with out actual peer reviewed research papers , its still in the dark-ages. any one got any research papers in this are? Projectiles with a tail placement of the core have a significantly greater armored damaging ability of the fragmentation flow. Article in VBTT on tests confirms this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P Lakowski Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 (edited) For the sake of us mere mortals a link to this ?? Article in VBTT would be great! Â visual ballistic camera tracking? Edited June 3, 2022 by P Lakowski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiedzmin Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 (edited) 21 hours ago, Laurelix said: teel Tip Length: 16mm you counting only tip itself ? without threaded part ? Â Â it's like adding 30-50mm(depends on threaded part length) to M829 if you count only outer part of tip Edited June 4, 2022 by Wiedzmin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiedzmin Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022  Interesting proof rounds from LMZ muzeum       Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiedzmin Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022  interesting sabot design Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Przezdzieblo Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Yep, lightweight, with reduced front ring. But note also that rear ring (with obturator) is much more to the front. Because of this there is more space in cartridge for propellant. Is is designated as Shard mk 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurelix Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 (edited) Is there any information on the Penetration performance of 100mm 3BM-25 APFSDS? What i have gathered so far is: 100mm 3BM-8 APDS - 1415m/s Projectile Weight: 5.7kg Propellant: 6.66kg Penetrator: 2.9kg Penetration: 368mm @ 0m at 0 Degrees -- 1415m/s 103mm @ 0m at 60 Degrees - 290mm @ 2000m at 0 Degrees -- 1202m/s 81mm @ 2000m at 60 Degrees = 100mm 3BM-20 APFSDS - 1480m/s * Projectile Weight: 4.58kg Propellant: 5.9kg Penetrator: 2.91kg + 0.17kg Carbide Core Penetration: ???mm @ 0m at 0 Degrees -- 1480m/s 126mm @ 0m at 60 Degrees - 240mm @ 2000m at 0 Degrees * 90mm @ 2000m at 60 Degrees -- 1268m/s * According to Arcon Partners LTD, Bulgarian Manufacturer that still produces it under license, the 60 degree values are from L-O equation with same velocity drop off used as on 3BM-8. = 100mm 3BM-25 APFSDS - 1430m/s??? Projectile Weight: 5.02kg Propellant: 6.5kg Penetrator: 3.29kg + 0.27kg Carbide Core As far as im aware its very similar to 3BM-20 but they changed these things: - Carbide Core was changed to the same one that is used in 3BM-22 Zakolka, 0.27kg - Uses Different Propellant - Penetrator length is the same as on 3BM-20 but just like on 3BM-22, the top area of the penetrator is now made from Heavy Tungsten Alloy Now I see sources saying both 3BM-20 and 3BM-25 are 1430m/s but in the end 3BM-20 is actually 1480m/s, wether the 3BM-25 is 1430m/s or 1480m/s, im not certain. If i were to make an educated guess... Going from 100mm 3BM-20 to 3BM-25 is something similar to 125mm 3BM-15 to 3BM-22 Which increases penetration at 2km by 20mm at 60 degrees. 296mm @ 2000m at 0 degrees 110mm @ 2000m at 60 degrees Edited June 26, 2022 by Laurelix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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