Jump to content

Main Gun Ammo - Revisited


Jim Warford

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

unknown.png.e4ca2eef29d2a605ff0644abd3b4d6b9.png

I had a Chinese translate 3 of these.
1. (Steel?) Tip [very top of shell]
2. Tungsten Carbide Core [3rd from bottom]
3. Bottom Screw [2nd from bottom]

Now i dont know why there would be a bottom screw, maybe its also made from penetrator material to kinda hold the carbide core in place as its penetrating?

Edited by Laurelix
Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Laurelix said:

I had a Chinese translate 3 of these.
1. (Steel?) Tip [very top of shell]
2. Tungsten Carbide Core [3rd from bottom]
3. Bottom Screw [2nd from bottom]

Now i dont know why there would be a bottom screw, maybe its also made from penetrator material to kinda hold the carbide core in place as its penetrating?

Steel tip is to protect the core from aerodynamic heating.

Bottom screw is for retaining tungsten carbide core (added the most probably for boosting residual penetration and behind armour effect) both during launch and landing.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Przezdzieblo said:

Steel tip is to protect the core from aerodynamic heating.

Bottom screw is for retaining tungsten carbide core (added the most probably for boosting residual penetration and behind armour effect) both during launch and landing.  

That would make sense for the tip. Even if the tip is not tungsten and calculated as steel, i think the L-O would still give more or less the same value at 90% as Chinese figures.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Laurelix said:

584 Pixels = 630mm Penetrator Length

counting penetrator length with ballistic cap - big brain

 

please stop spamming forum with all that crap...

Edited by Wiedzmin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://arca.live/b/apfsdscharts/51565398

The pixel measuring i did on DTC10-125 was on a image that wasnt perfectly straight so i re-did it on this site.

Projectile Length: 672mm
Tungsten Penetrator: 615mm (Provided that the bottom screw holding tungsten carbide core is actually made from WHA)
Steel Tip Length: 16mm
Tungsten Carbide Core Length: 68mm

Edited by Laurelix
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't wanna rain on your parade of pixel measure, but be adviced to remember that point of measure matters. Obturator ring is wider than sabot itself. In case of 125 mm 3BM42 APFSDS obturator diameter is max. 129,4 mm. If you base your estimates of projectile length on diameter/width which is overstated, you would get also overstated length.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is used to enhance residual penetration. During the last phase of armour penetration process, when rod velocity drops below hypervelocity, remains of WHA penetrator loses it's piercing potential. It got suboptimal shape (mooshroom), it is eroding no more. But that velocity, circa 1000 m/s, is still quite good for rigid penetrator like WC core. It can make a hole just like it did in "dark ages".

You can check Rheinmetall patent from 2019 on long rod penetrator with hard, rigid subcore in end part of rod.

click

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Przezdzieblo said:

It is used to enhance residual penetration. During the last phase of armour penetration process, when rod velocity drops below hypervelocity, remains of WHA penetrator loses it's piercing potential. It got suboptimal shape (mooshroom), it is eroding no more. But that velocity, circa 1000 m/s, is still quite good for rigid penetrator like WC core. It can make a hole just like it did in "dark ages".

You can check Rheinmetall patent from 2019 on long rod penetrator with hard, rigid subcore in end part of rod.

click

 

 

Sounds good in theory but with out actual peer reviewed research papers , its still in the dark-ages.

any one got any research papers in this are?

Edited by P Lakowski
Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, P Lakowski said:

Sounds good in theory but with out actual peer reviewed research papers , its still in the dark-ages.

any one got any research papers in this are?

Projectiles with a tail placement of the core have a significantly greater armored damaging ability of the fragmentation flow. Article in VBTT on tests confirms this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Laurelix said:

teel Tip Length: 16mm

you counting only tip itself ? without threaded part ?

 

cfGHVmRVWpSVSpaPu2f1r46zD9Iz0wxdOUClYAR5

 

it's like adding 30-50mm(depends on threaded part length) to M829 if you count only outer part of tip

Edited by Wiedzmin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Is there any information on the Penetration performance of 100mm 3BM-25 APFSDS?
What i have gathered so far is:

100mm 3BM-8 APDS - 1415m/s 
Projectile Weight: 5.7kg
Propellant: 6.66kg
Penetrator: 2.9kg
Penetration:
368mm @ 0m at 0 Degrees -- 1415m/s
103mm @ 0m at 60 Degrees
-
290mm @ 2000m at 0 Degrees -- 1202m/s
81mm @ 2000m at 60 Degrees 

=

100mm 3BM-20 APFSDS - 1480m/s * 
Projectile Weight: 4.58kg
Propellant: 5.9kg
Penetrator: 2.91kg + 0.17kg Carbide Core
Penetration:
???mm @ 0m at 0 Degrees --  1480m/s
126mm @ 0m at 60 Degrees
-
240mm @ 2000m at 0 Degrees *
90mm @ 2000m at 60 Degrees -- 1268m/s

* According to Arcon Partners LTD, Bulgarian Manufacturer that still produces it under license, the 60 degree values are from L-O equation with same velocity drop off used as on 3BM-8.

=

100mm 3BM-25 APFSDS - 1430m/s???
Projectile Weight: 5.02kg
Propellant: 6.5kg
Penetrator: 3.29kg + 0.27kg Carbide Core

51c4727c2c0e1c077884d677f2a083f18222e8af36e8a3f32b002bf6777001a1.png?type=orig

As far as im aware its very similar to 3BM-20 but they changed these things:
- Carbide Core was changed to the same one that is used in 3BM-22 Zakolka, 0.27kg
- Uses Different Propellant
- Penetrator length is the same as on 3BM-20 but just like on 3BM-22, the top area of the penetrator is now made from Heavy Tungsten Alloy

Now I see sources saying both 3BM-20 and 3BM-25 are 1430m/s but in the end 3BM-20 is actually 1480m/s, wether the 3BM-25 is 1430m/s or 1480m/s, im not certain.

If i were to make an educated guess...
Going from 100mm 3BM-20 to 3BM-25 is something similar to 125mm 3BM-15 to 3BM-22
Which increases penetration at 2km by 20mm at 60 degrees.
296mm @ 2000m at 0 degrees
110mm @ 2000m at 60 degrees

Edited by Laurelix
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...