What happens when everyone has stealth aircrafts?

[Josh]

jua, sensors are way cheaper than LO aircraft. Just FYI.

234345[/snapback]

 

I didn't say Stealth a/c would be invulerable forever, I just said the US would be the only one's using them (point taken about unmanned a/c though--I should have specified manned a/c). How long Stealth actually makes a difference or is relavent is a whole 'nother topic I'm unqualified to speculate at.

[swerve]

A second is that there *are* stealth UAV/UCAV designs on the drawing board.

 

David

 

Flying, not on the drawing board. Only technology demonstrators so far, but at least one of them has an internal weapons bay.

 

RCS & IR signature reduction packages for existing aircraft, e.g. Tornado, are available now, just not funded. Lack of perceived threat . . . .

[LeoTanker]

I remember reading somewhere that the Russians claimed to have fitted a Mig-31 with an experimental "plasma stealth" shield system.  The general concensus was that it was a falacy as in order for the "plasma stealth" shield system to have worked as claimed, it would "microwave" the pilot.

234400[/snapback]

 

 

I dont belive in this plasma stealth thing either. But still... a coupple of Su-24s managed to jump that US carrier, and all her escorts, in the sea of Japan in 1996 (or was it in 1999) without beeing detected before they buzzed over her deck. How was this possible? Well, I guess the use of plasma stealth is the least likely explanation, but...

[Hans Engstrom]

Here's a list of SAABs UAV programmes;

 

http://www.aviationweek.com/shownews/04farn/top28.htm

 

Even though it's from 04, it's remarkably correct and admirably concise.

[swerve]

Here's a list of SAABs UAV programmes;

 

http://www.aviationweek.com/shownews/04farn/top28.htm

 

Even though it's from 04, it's remarkably correct and admirably concise.

234756[/snapback]

 

Do you know if the Filur has actually flown? It was due to fly by last month, last I heard, but I've not heard anything about t taking to the air - only ground tests. But when SAAB flew the SHARC they rushed out the news only 5 months later, & it's recently emerged that the EADS Barrakuda (announced in March to fly "by the end of the year") has been flying for some time, so I'm quite prepared to believe it could be buzzing around with no public announcement.

 

BTW, does anyone know about any non-European non-US stealthy UAVs and/or manned planes under development?

[tankerwanabe]

Do you know if the Filur has actually flown? It was due to fly by last month, last I heard, but I've not heard anything about t taking to the air - only ground tests. But when SAAB flew the SHARC they rushed out the news only 5 months later, & it's recently emerged that the EADS Barrakuda (announced in March to fly "by the end of the year") has been flying for some time, so I'm quite prepared to believe it could be buzzing around with no public announcement.

 

BTW, does anyone know about any non-European non-US stealthy UAVs and/or manned planes under development?

234924[/snapback]

 

The current "Air Power" (I think, anyways it's on your Borders newstand) has an indept coverage on all UAVs including the x45 and x47. I think it did mention some German UAVs too.

[swerve]

The current "Air Power" (I think, anyways it's on your Borders newstand) has an indept coverage on all UAVs including the x45 and x47.  I think it did mention some German UAVs too.

 

Borders? Is that a US chain? If so - wrong continent . And that's not really what I asked, which was about non-US, non-European UAVs.

[elytorian]

I dont belive in this plasma stealth thing either. But still... a coupple of Su-24s managed to jump that US carrier, and all her escorts, in the sea of Japan in 1996 (or was it in 1999) without beeing detected before they buzzed over her deck. How was this possible? Well, I guess the use of plasma stealth is the least likely explanation, but...

234724[/snapback]

I am pretty sure that there was no "plasma stealth" involved

[tankerwanabe]

Borders? Is that a US chain? If so - wrong continent    . And that's not really what I asked, which was about non-US, non-European UAVs.

234971[/snapback]

 

Wrong continent. Borders is a books store chain in the U.S. But Air Power is pretty widely known in the industry.

 

Right question. It briefed on a Singaporian UAV project. Did not elaborate as much as the US systems, but talked about Singapore's needs which may give a clue to the UAV's performance.

[Macarthur]

And it would also set off every IR sensor from so far off it's not funny. Plasma shield = highly detectable.

234409[/snapback]

 

from what I here the IR aspect is pretty limited, and because of the way its distributed, it confuses the hell out of all aspect detectors, just looks like a giant, low intensity flare or summat. This is all based on speculation and press releases though, the only thing for sure is that there's a project and that it is at least works on the ground.

[swerve]

Wrong continent. Borders is a books store chain in the U.S.  But Air Power is pretty widely known in the industry.

 

Right question. It briefed on a Singaporian UAV project. Did not elaborate as much as the US systems, but talked about Singapore's needs which may give a clue to the UAV's performance.

235207[/snapback]

 

Ta. I may be able to get hold of it.

[Brasidas]

from what I here the IR aspect is pretty limited, and because of the way its distributed, it confuses the hell out of all aspect detectors, just looks like a giant, low intensity flare or summat. This is all based on speculation and press releases though, the only thing for sure is that there's a project and that it is at least works on the ground.

235264[/snapback]

 

Then you hear or understand incorrectly, or you do not read scientific sources. Do you know anything about how EM energy propogates through atmosphere?

[FlyingCanOpener]

Then you hear or understand incorrectly, or you do not read scientific sources. Do you know anything about how EM energy propogates through atmosphere?

235329[/snapback]

 

Or at least the thermal properties for Plasma for one...

[gewing]

Yes, and Lampyridae was only designed "relatively recently". That would be for values of "relatively recently" that correspond to "within my lifetime".

 

Radar stealth isn't magic, the principles are clearly understood. The key issue seems to involve the precision manufacture and assembly of specialist composite material structures. That capability isn't unique to the US - I might suggest that the highest precision composite manufacturing in the world is probably based in and around Woking and Brackley right now, and the biggest high-precision composite structures are built in Germany for the A380.

 

Where the US scores is in having the will and the budgetary priorities to have actually fielded something, which counts for much, but not all.

 

Do not confuse lack of capability with lack of will (or desire, or whatever).

 

My opinion on the question at hand - the classic "blindfold knife-fight in the dark" isn't really going to happen. Electro-optical systems just get better and better, are passive and extend "WVR" to ranges considered "BVR" only a decade or so ago, and that's just one technology.

 

David

233430[/snapback]

 

 

 

I'm curious about LADAR. I suspect it will remain almost exclusively air to ground, but...

[DB]

I'm curious about LADAR.  I suspect it will remain almost exclusively air to ground, but...

237709[/snapback]

"Laser radar"? *Shrug*. It's active, of course, and EO sensors work the same way radio sensors work (in this context) - the target will detect the emitter at much greater ranges than the source will get a usable return from the target. Laser warning receivers already form part of some ESM suites, I believe.

 

David

[gewing]

"Laser radar"? *Shrug*. It's active, of course, and EO sensors work the same way radio sensors work (in this context) - the target will detect the emitter at much greater ranges than the source will get a usable return from the target. Laser warning receivers already form part of some ESM suites, I believe.

 

David

237866[/snapback]

 

 

The apparent resolution of it is pretty impressive though. At least according to the stuff I have seen about the Locaas seeker.

 

Though I also suspect range will be very limited.