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I'm sure certain tanknet menber (s) will quickly post 15+ reference in regards to this:

 

5 of them will say this a big lie by the Brit

4 of them claim those are not Indian

3 of them claim those are Pakistani

2 of them will blame on the evil Pakistan

1 of them will said those are photoshop image by the evil Chinese commie

 

the rest wil put the US liberal media and Nepal's Royal house at fault

 

:lol:

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Logo by Jaume Ollé

 

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/in-azhin.html

 

This link iirc is the most ccmprehensive one.

 

http://www.feldgrau.com/azadhind.html

 

Book review of "The Sign of the Tiger: Subhas Chandra Bose And His Indian Legion in Germany, 1941-45 by Rudolf Hartog; Rupa, New Delhi; Pages 206, Rs.395."

 

http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl1820/18200770.htm

 

Incidentally the Azad Hind members and their compatriots from Bose's Indian National Army were shunned by the Indian Army after independence. They were not reinstated,nor ranks regularized. The rationale was the Army was apolitical organization and did not want these members within its ranks. Furthermore, the IA was still of British heritage and the brass were unsure of how the Azad Hind guys would fit in. Lastly, there were allegations of torture against captured Indian troops by some Azad Hind members [to coerce POWs to join].

 

Bose has taken most of the credit and fame, but for better or worse, the INA [indian National Army; Azad Hind] members were left in the shadows. IIRC some of them are still hoping for some sort of regular pension from the Indian Govt.

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Philately on Bose/ Azad Hind.

 

The term "controversial" with regards to Bose is correct. He is deified in West Bengal, the state of his origin. But his political career was wracked by a severe disagreement with Mahatma Gandhi and the Congress Party.

 

Gandhi was iirc of the view that armed struggle would be incessant and needlessly bloody. Bose wanted independence at any cost. Hence his run for "questionable" allies, rushing from Hitler to Japan. Hitler basically fobbed him off without any reassurance regarding India's independence. The Japanese were more interested. Albeit imho, having Bose on their side made for good propoganda.

 

After Independence, the Congress took political power and that was that.

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Do you have anything useful to contribute apart from useless trolling in general?

 

Get a life.

209998[/snapback]

 

Actually, I thought it was pretty funny myself, as it did succulently describe the internet searching powers of our memberships.

 

Though back on topic I always heard of this as being a bit of urban history. Nice to see that debunked...

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3684288.stm

 

This is a somewhat obscure but interesting facet of World War II. One doesn't usually think of Indian troops wearing German uniforms.

209859[/snapback]

 

One of my history professors, who had a particular interest in the Second World War, stated in one of his lectures that the "Burma Campaign" was largely fought on Indian soil, between two armies largely composed of Indian nationals, one officered by the British, the other by the Japanese.

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Actually, I thought it was pretty funny myself, as it did succulently describe the internet searching powers of our memberships.

 

You are welcome to your views, but it was obvious as to the intent of the original post and the flaming it was intended to provoke.

The Nepal bit for one. The said poster above posted some egregrious claims on the INSAS thread and they were politely and factually debunked. But given that he did not have anything to rebut that, such comments are the best way to hit back. As to the Brit line- that was merely playing to the gallery, so were the next three. The last line accurately depicts where the particular poster is so needled and which is the crux of the matter. The online chinese and Indian boards have a nice "history" behind them and its not hard to discern where loyalties lie, given past posting behaviour on other boards. Anyhow, this is a thread diversion- exactly what the original post intended, so I'll get back on topic.

 

Though back on topic I always heard of this as being a bit of urban history. Nice to see that debunked...

210014[/snapback]

 

Its hardly urban history or legend! The Bose INA thing and the Indian Legend is very well documented.

As a matter of fact, any search on the Indian troops throws up dozens of links, even with cursory keywords.

Bose and his history are pretty well documented. The man had noble intentions [from the Independence pov] but he ended up having to ask those for aid, who were much worse and no better than the Raj [and in many policies much worse].

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One of my history professors, who had a particular interest in the Second World War, stated in one of his lectures that the "Burma Campaign" was largely fought on Indian soil, between two armies largely composed of Indian nationals, one officered by the British, the other by the Japanese.

210044[/snapback]

 

He was right on target in a general sense, although it was the Japanese Army which was the real opponent, and conducted the bulk of the fighting. Many in the British Indian Army regarded the IJA assisted as oath breakers, whereas the Azad Hind guys thought they were fighting a bunch of sell outs.

 

It was a bit more complicated than that though. Field Marshal Cariappa [who fought iirc in the Burma Campaign and was decorated; his FM was a tag specifically given by the Indian Govt given his service in setting up and organizing the Indian Army post independence as the CAS] recalls that many Indian officers of the time had become politically aware and contacted the Indian National Congress, as they were conflicted upon serving the British. He and his fellow officers also did the same. He was told to stay away and do his job, as the British would be leaving soon, and the nascent Indian state would surely need the services of trained military professionals and his services [and those of his colleagues ] would be much more valuable than they would be as political activists.

 

So while many officers in the British led Indian Army were keenly aware of and sympathised with the independence movement, they stuck on with the job at hand.

 

Also, part of the Congress's support for the British led WW2 effort using Indian troops was the general "understanding" that given this sacrifice, the British would leave India and independence was a given. Of course, as you'd know- that didnt work out, and the Congress ultimately started the countrywide, mass non-violent "Quit India" movement.

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For some reason, I suspect that if the Japanese had succeeded in "liberating" them, India would not suffer from overpopulation problems nowadays...

210026[/snapback]

 

True. Given the treatment of Indian POWs and what they did to other Asian populations, Boses holding out against the Japanese is very debatable. The way things ultimately worked out was perhaps for the best from the Indian independence POV.

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Here are some bullet points

- British have done a lot worse to maintain or regain their independence

- Any Indian who risked his life fighting for British Queen was not a bright person

- Any Indian who did whatever he could to advance the cause of Indian independence was a great man

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As for Hitler i dont think he was particularly keen on India getting independence, he was supposed to have remarked to an indian officer that indians were not ready for independence for at least a 100 years.

 

Indian populations under Japanese?.There were quite a number in occupied Malaya for instance.While it was tough for everyone , the japanese targetted mainly the chinese and left those did not cause them problems to their own devices.

 

AaronK, highly provocative rhetoric.Might be OK in the FFZ but we generally try and avoid this in the GenMil forum as it derails the substantive content rich discussions lots of us look forward to.

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I agree. This adds nothing to the discussion!

 

The bulk of people who fought for India in 47-48 were those who signed up under the British; I am quite sure all the widows and veterans would appreciate being called "not bright" for having signed up!

 

On a side note about Bose- he set up the Tiger Legion, talks to Hitler about it, meeting is a disaster. Bose comes out calling Hitler a "boda pagol", mad man, leaves his troops behind and goes to Japan to set up the Azad Hind/Indian National Army [Japanese give him an assurance for independent India, which Hitler doesnt. Hitler wants to invade Russia, which Bose regards as a betrayal]. All intended to get rid of the Raj, but what of the men he left behind in Germany? They felt left behind, morale hit rock bottom, discipline suffered! INA fights against their fellow Indians, many of whom would *not* leave the British Army as they'd have to break their oath.

 

There are no *easy* answers or glib judgements to make.

 

However, as historian Ed Hayne's [people might know him from his research on war medals] notes- the Tiger Legion/INA/ Bose broke the impression that the British Indian Army would remain forever committed to British interests, and that had a huge impact on Britains plans to remain in India- they had to revise the timescale for withdrawal.

 

From the Indian pov, there remains a widespread admiration for the INA/ Bose since despite all the bit about non-violence etc- at least someone took up arms against the British after the failed revolt in 1857, and put a lot on the line to make it happen. Furthermore, Bose's INA was the ideal secular unit- Indian Muslims, Hindus, Christians and Sikhs all signed up, caste and creed forgotten. Bose's man friday and closest friend was a Muslim. [who helped him escape from British house arrest in India]

 

And even so, elements of the INA did apply strong arm tactics to make people sign up even though Bose did not- he used to cherrypick members and have them sold on his vision.

 

After independence, like I said before, the INA was rejected by the Indian Army, even though the public liked him . [ I think the Congress was ok with his popularity since he had no successors and he was dead and gone]

 

Like I said, no easy answers. And provocative rhetoric does not help.

 

Furthermore, todays Indian Armed forces still have a lot of British begun traditions, are they too "not bright"?

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Saladin,

 

Spot on. Hitler is said to have remarked that the British should have been much harsher with Indian revolts or attempts to gain self rule.

 

Goes without saying that if Hitler had been in charge, his officers would have carried out his remarks with due diligence.

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I'm sure certain tanknet menber (s) will quickly post 15+ reference in regards to this:

 

5 of them will say this a big lie by the Brit

4 of them claim those are not Indian

3 of them claim those are Pakistani

2 of them will blame on the evil Pakistan

1 of them will said those are photoshop image by the evil Chinese commie

 

the rest wil put  the US liberal media and Nepal's Royal house at fault

 

:lol:

209991[/snapback]

Wow, you're a dumbass.

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Anyone claiming that this is urban legend, or, as the Chinese poster claims, trying to whitewash it either is incredibly ignorant, or willfully trying to subvert basic fact.

 

The existance of the Azad Hind or INA is hardly unknown or knowlege spurned. While India raised the largest voulnteer military in the history of humanity to fight the axis, Indian independence fighters also fought the British who committed acts of tyranny against India not unlike what the Axis powers did in their occupied countries.

 

Here's an article from on Subash Chandra Bose

 

-Raj

 

 

Netaji Subas Chandra Bose

 

While the Gandhi /Nehru faction of Congress has garnered much of the credit for India's freedom struggle, it is important to remember that India's freedom movement was in fact a movement of the masses and there were a number of great leaders with fierce patriotism and great visionary ideas who sacrificed their entire lives for the nation's cause. We continue our series on the freedom fighters, on the occasion of Netaji's 102nd birthday.

-Jyotsna Kamat

January 26, 1999

India's Republic Day

 

 

Known as Netaji (leader), Mr. Bose was a fierce and popular leader in the political scene in pre-independence India . He was the president of the Indian National Congress in 1937 and 1939, and founded a nationalist force called the Indian National Army.

 

Subhas Chandra was born on January 23rd 1897 in Cuttack (in present day Orissa) as the ninth child among fourteen, of Janakinath Bose, an advocate, and Prabhavatidevi, a pious and God-fearing lady. A brilliant student, he topped the matriculation examination of Calcutta province and passed his B.A. in Philosophy from the Presidency College in Calcutta. He was strongly influenced by Swami Vivekananda's teachings and was known for his patriotic zeal as a student. His parents' wishes kept him away from the Indian freedom struggle and led him into studies for the Indian Civil Service in England. Although he finished those examinations also at the top of his class (4th), he could not complete his aprecentship and returned to India, being deeply disturbed by the Jallianwalla Bagh massacre. He came under the influence of Mahatma Gandhi and joined the Indian National Congress (a.k.a. Congress). Gandhiji directed him to work with Deshbandhu Chittaranjan Das, the Bengali leader whom Bose acknowledged as his political guru.

 

Bose was outspoken in his anti-British stance and was jailed 11 (eleven) times between 1920 and 1941 for periods varying between six months and three years. He was the leader of the youth wing of the Congress Party, in the forefront of the trade union movement in India and organized Service League, another wing of Congress. He was admired for his great skills in organization development .

 

 

The Influence of Bose

 

Bose advocated complete freedom for India at the earliest, whereas the Congress Committee wanted it in phases, through a Dominion status. Other younger leaders including Jawaharlal Nehru supported Bose and finally at the historic Lahore Congress convention, the Congress had to adopt Poorna Swaraj (complete freedom) as its motto. Bhagat Singh's martyrdom and the inability of the Congress leaders to save his life infuriated Bose and he started a movement opposing the Gandhi-Irvin Peace Pact. He was imprisoned and expelled from India. But defying the ban, he came back to India and was imprisoned again!

 

Clouds of World War II were gathering fast and Bose warned the Indian people and the British against dragging India into the war and the material losses she could incur. He was elected president of the Indian National Congress twice in 1937 and in 1939, the second time defeating Gandhiji's nominee. He brought a resolution to give the British six months to hand India over to the Indians, failing which there would be a revolt. There was much opposition to his rigid stand, and he resigned from the post of president and formed a progressive group known as the Forward Block (1939).

 

The second World War broke out in September of 1939, and just as predicted by Bose, India was declared as a warring state (on behalf of the British) by the Governor General, without consulting Indian leaders. The Congress party was in power in seven major states and all state governments resigned in protest.

 

Subhas Chandra Bose now started a mass movement against utilizing Indian resources and men for the great war. To him, it made no sense to further bleed poor Indians for the sake of colonial and imperial nations. There was a tremendous response to his call and the British promptly imprisoned him . He took to a hunger-strike, and after his health deteriorated on the 11th day of fasting, he was freed and was placed under house arrest. The British were afraid of violent reactions in India, should something happen to Bose in prison.

 

 

The Mystery Begins...

 

Bose suddenly disappeared in the beginning of 1941 and it was not until many days that authorities realized Bose was not inside the house they were guarding! He traveled by foot, car and train and resurfaced in Kabul (now in Afghanistan), only to disappear once again. In November 1941, his broadcast from German radio sent shock waves among the British and electrified the Indian masses who realized that their leader was working on a master plan to free their motherland. It also gave fresh confidence to the revolutionaries in India who were challenging the British in many ways.

 

The Axis powers (mainly Germany) assured Bose military and other help to fight the British. Japan by this time had grown into another strong world power, occupying key colonies of Dutch, French, and British colonies in Asia. Bose had struck alliance with Germany and Japan. He rightly felt that his presence in the East would help his countrymen in freedom struggle and second phase of his saga began. It is told that he was last seen on land near Keil canal in Germany, in the beginning of 1943. A most hazardous journey was undertaken by him under water, covering thousands of miles, crossing enemy territories. He was in the Atlantic, the Middle East, Madagascar and the Indian ocean. Battles were being fought over land, in the air and there were mines in the sea. At one stage he traveled 400 miles in a rubber dinghy to reach a Japanese submarine, which took him to Tokyo. He was warmly received in Japan and was declared the head of the Indian army, which consisted of about 40,000 soldiers from Singapore and other eastern regions. Bose called it the Indian National Army (INA) and a government by the name "Azad Hind Government" was declared on the 21st of October 1943. INA freed the Andaman and Nicobar islands from the British, and were renamed as Swaraj and Shaheed islands. The Government started functioning.

 

^Bose in INA Uniform 1943

 

 

Early Success and Tragic End

 

Bose wanted to free India from the Eastern front. He had taken care that Japanese interference was not present from any angle. Army leadership, administration and communications were managed only by Indians. Subhash Brigade, Azad Brigade and Gandhi Brigade were formed. INA marched through Burma and occupied Coxtown on the Indian Border. A touching scene ensued when the solders entered their 'free' motherland. Some lay down and kissed, some placed pieces of mother earth on their heads, others wept. They were now inside of India and were determined to drive out the British! Delhi Chalo (Let's march to Delhi) was the war cry.

 

The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki changed the history of mankind. Japan had to surrender. Bose was in Singapore at that time and decided to go to Tokyo for his next course of action. Unfortunately, the plane he boarded crashed near Taipei and he died in the hospital of severe burns. He was just 48.

 

The Indian people were so much enamored of Bose's oratory and leadership qualities, fealressness and mysterious adventures, that he had become a legend. They refused to believe that he died in the plane crash. The famous Red Fort trial wherein Bose's generals and the INA officers were tried, became landmark events. Initially, the British Government thought of a court-martial, but there was a countrywide protest against any kind of punishment. For common Indians, Axis and Allied powers hardly mattered, but they could not tolerate punishment of fellow countrymen who were fighting for freedom. The British Government was in no position to face open rebellion or mutiny and a general amnesty for INA soldiers was declared.

 

While Bose's approach to Indian freedom continues to generate heated debate in the Indian society today, there is no denying of his burning patriotism, his tireless efforts to free India from inside and outside and his reckless adventures in trying to reach his goals. His exploits later became a legend due to the many stories carried by the disbanded INA soldiers who came from every nook and corner of our great country.

 

Had he lived, Subhas Chandra Bose could have given a new turn to Independent India's political history. But he lives on eternally in the Indian mind, more famous after his death.

 

-

 

 

Some more photos of the Indian National Army

^ INA stamp with Netaji Bose

 

^Netaji Bose with troops

 

^ Calcutta University Territorials, 1918. Armed with U.S. Model 1914 rifles and Pattern 1913 bayonets. Standing second from right, with glasses, is Subhas Chandra Bose, who in later years rose to become the leader of the famed Indian National Army.

 

^ The INA in formation at a parade addressed by Netaji - 1943

 

^ INA publicity pamplet - 1943

 

^ Indian National Army Monument, Singapore, dedicated to an Unknown Warrior of the Indian National Army

 

 

^ INA Soldier

Edited by RajKhalsa
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Actually, the Bose Corporation was started by Amar Gopal Bose whose father was a Revolutionary fighting for Indian Independence.

 

 

If anyone's interested, you can

 

download the INA Anthem, Kadam Kadam Bhadaye Jaa, which is now played by Indian Para-Military and National Cadet Corps forces. [mp3 format, 2.4mb]

 

Kadam Kadam is regarded as one of the most patriotic songs in India. It was composed by Indian National Army's Captain Ram Singh Thakuri, a Gorkha soldier who composed much of the INAs and India's favorite songs, including the musical composition of the Indian National Anthem.

Edited by RajKhalsa
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