Kit Hildreth

As others mentioned, the reforms and re-equipment of the Red Armed forces would have put them in an unassailable position both in terms of defense and offense by mid-1942. The big delay problem was the late spring thaw of 1941 putting back by five weeks the commencement of Barbarossa from 15th May to 22nd June 1941. Assuming identical progress we would have seen 2Pz in Kalinin 20km from the Kremlin in mid October. Also the Mongolian Campaign of 1939 against the Japanese had taught Zhukov at least, how to both counter and conduct "Blitzkrieg". Ally that to numerical and technical superiority of tank forces and the Soviets would have been in Berlin in May 1943: at the same time the Western allies drove the Afrika Korps out of North Africa! That would have been nice wouldn't it! The appearance of both the T34 and KV-! in the field proved a profound shock to the Germans/Nazis - a sort of military equivelant of Jesse Owens trouncing the aryan supermen in the '36 Olympic Games! Without those epoch-making AFV's, it is unlikely the incentive to upgrade their own AFV's would have motivated the Germans greatly.

Of late, it's struck me also the similarities between hitler and Winnie; except one was an Austrian Oik and the other a full blown English aristocrat. But both came to power from the "wilderness" so to speak. One because of a dire economic situation and the other from a dire war condition. Each thought he knew best and acted capriciously on several occasions. Both were far better at strategy than tactics, but meddled in the latter to their nations' detriment throwing them down the drain. Proviso; with Hitler, there was no doubt as to outcome, but it took 12 years before Churchill's efforts bore sour fruit in the end of empire, and the nation's reduction to a lap-dog of the U.S after Suez. Something that I feel could have been ameliorated without Churchill as P.M. You're forgetting Kurt von Schleicher,a Reichswehr general, who had preceded von Papen as chancellor, and was indeed political, but whose actions - and of many other senior Reichswehr Officers - led to Hitler being MADE Chancellor and Schlieicher's death in the "Night of the Long Knives" of 1934. It is often forgotten how frightened German military men were of the rising tide of the German Communists and how, unpalatable though many found the Nazis, the latter constituted the only effective opposition to the Communists. Thus many Reichswehr generals, high-level politicians and industrialists supported Hitler, vainly believing they could control him. But were taken in by his ploy of appearing to be all things to all men - and DON'T forget the Women. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think it was G.S Graber(not in my Library), in his "Anatomy of the SS state" who noted that by 1938, 62.4% of Nazi party membership comprised of women! Hitler tailored his approach to people in a most persuasive manner, and could be said I think, to have seduced a people, whom by virtue of the dire circumstances most were living in at the time, were all to ready for a "Savior". To paraphrase, some savior, some nation! But I was always struck by the statement of an Austrian, from the depths of disillusionment ,considered, that had Hitler not gone to war against Poland, he would have gone down as Germany's greatest statesmen, toppling even the mighty Otto Bismarck from his pedestal. Instead...as Guderian put it in his Memoirs: "it is not the fault of this officer, Germany lost the war". Had the Germans won....

Actually the momentum you refer to should have applied to July-August of 1941 when the Soviets were in some dissarray, Zhukov was tied up elsewhere, and Moscow lay quite undefended. Had the post-Smolensk German offensives not been internally dissipated and then deflected, Moscow could have been taken, the only T34 factory captured, and the Soviet gov't either captured or - more likely - forced to flee ignomously leaving the Soviets in a mess until the their military became the dominant member of the Party-NKVD-Army triumvirate. That mess could have then have been effectivly exploited enough for the Germans to achieve the majority of their goals well before the severe fall/winter, and materiel to deal with same, brought up in good time. More important the decimating of the Wehrmacht dring the latter period would have been significantly lessand the Siberian divisions would have had a far less easy time of it: perhaps even being decimated in turn.

Do remember that war is war and unlike many of the Israeli fracas, war was actually declared by the combatants. It was no more or less a war crime than the Incendiary raids on Coventry and other UK cities by the Luftwaffe in 1940. British "Terror Raids" on Germany gave the AirMin a raison d'etre. In turn, those led indirectly to the massacre of Belgian civilians and U.S soldiers as an act of vengeance during the Battle of the Bulge by incensed SS troops who'd been forced to clear up after one of those raids by American bombers...not to mention some British and U.S aircrew being killed out of hand, on landing by parachute after a raid: the lucky ones being rescued by the Luftwaffe! As for defeating Hitler, one just has to listen to Israelis, the current U.S Administration, and Presidential candidates threatening Iran which itself has the titular backing of both Russia and China(nuclear powers remember) to realise that a modern Hitler or other "Bogeyman" would be dealt with in a similar manner. But with Nuclear weapons being used, make sure your bomb shelter has plenty of nice thick Polyethylene! But the sad fact is that despite the epic nature of this magnificent Raid, the failure to destroy the Sorpe dam, which would have fulfilled Barnes Wallis intention of disrupting German Industry for some time(remember this was just before Operation Citadel in Russia, and would have left the Germans very short handed at a critical juncture) was not achieved and the casualty rate was very high even by Bomber Command standards. The effect on the air defenses against the "conventional" Allied air assault would also have been curtailed. It was also after this raid, that concerted efforts were made to disperse German Industry since the raid highlighted what should have been an obvious vulnerabilty. Plus in 1943, 13 months before D-DAY the morale factor at home was VERY important: witness Churchill's defeat in June 1945 by a VERY war-weary public. This raid was a tremendous morale booster; the crew were were all crackerjack volunteers and enjoyed the demonstration of skill: a tradition continued by 617 sqd thereafter with the Tallboys and Grand Slams in precision raids.

Funny, I was thinking about this awhile back; and it struck me that had the Japanese simply attacked the British'. French' & Dutch' colonial possessions in S.W Asia and ignored the Americans completely, they could have cleaned up, secured their oil & other raw material sources such as rubber. In so doing, thereby avoiding conflict with the American's who would have been stymied because of their highly publicised anti-colonial stance. Hitler would not have felt compelled to declare war on the U.S in solidarity with his Axis partner, and Roosevelt would have been hard put to go beyond lend-lease in Congress & the Senate. Thoughts?

1. T34 2.Centurion 3. Pzkw IV 4. Sherman Firefly 5. M1 Abrams 6. Leopard 7. Pzkw V 8. Pzkw VI 9. M47/48/60 10. Challenger 1 & 2 Based on: originality/innovative design. impact in combat, F/P/M triangle balance criteria. Reliability in service, longevity of competitveness/upgrading capability. For example, the Centurion was marginal in upgrading to a 120mm main armamentbecause of turret ring size. Each Tank possesses only 1 or at most 2, significant failings

THANK YOU VERY MUCH! Okay, it was 8 Mks back(LOT less room with an L7!) but the photos and NICE vid of the Bovvie split Cent "made my day"! Lots of good memories- and it saved me the cost of a trip back to Blighty too! The driver even looked like that holy terror( for a Tankie 2Lt at any rate!) Chalky White: who KNEW how to DRIVE a Tank, believe me. but a few beers in him and... Main difference, we wore Black Denims on duty. My compliments on all the work you must of put in: Now amongst my Favourites...Interesting other tanks too! The King Tiger still looks "The Business" after all these decades doesn't it?! GRATE JOB! Especially since I haven't found the mislabelled Centurions yet...

Believe me, computer modelling is far from new tech. The Typhoon will have benefited from it too. We were doing a primitive form of it back in the seventies at HSD. Plus we did the same on Offshore Oil Rigs while I was @ B&R in the early Eighties. Although why they didn't call the "Typhoon" the Tempest I'll never know: much more appropriate re it's operational role. Probably the reason why they called the F-35 the Lightning II instead of the Thunderbolt III! By the way, the Brylcreem boys are buying both! Greedy Pigs. The Army's getting only a handful of Chall 2's....

They did indeed Stuart! Another example from WAAAAY back, those toffee-nosed barstewards in the "Cherry Bums"(what WE called the 11th Hussars; 'specially when THEY got Chieftains BEFORE US! GRRRR!) in their equally uncharitable way, referred to us(2RTR) as "The Rude Mechanicals". Ah,class warfare!

If you've ever had to site and fire a Bren on a reverse slope such a question would be academic- burnt fingers: OUCH!

Standard Stuff really . One can't help but wonder why the UK bothers in cooperation with the US. Wth the glaring exception of the Falklands show, the Brits have always come out with the short end of the stick in "collabarative" ventures with the Yanks. The reverse however: one wonders how the 8thAF would have managed had Rolls-Royce not graciously agreed to Packard licence building their Merlin aero engine for the P51 Mustang, the Jet engine, RDF/"Radar"(cavity-magnetron etc) or the ROF agreeing to licence building of the 105mm L7. One could waffle on ad nauseum, but in truth if Limey govt's weren't so stingy/ such cheapskates etc...

"To the victor go the spoils". Remember Richard III/Henry VII!

Might I reccommend a perusal of Max Hastings' "Armageddon" on this subject. He documents numerous atrocities by the allies on a level that put people like Peiper in gaol. However, the Jerries did start it:both times - a point old "Slackbladder" conveniently ignored!