C.G.Erickson

Did you not read my post? Germans had a confirmation rule in place.....Thus 120+ vs 190+ You are trying to spin a topic MAJORITY of kills CONFIRMED wer in a Pz 4.

So "PUHLEEZE" tell me what actions destroyed 4th Armored Compliment of Shermans two times over. The idea that an Armored Division would fritter away their "Exploitation" force willy nilly, in attrition warfare, is incomprehensible. Sending individual units to their destruction in small unit actions is inconceiveable.

On Topic ? Ever hear of Kurt Knipsel? Grudgingly referred to as the BEST Tank Gunner in the German Army in WW2. From June 22 1941 to Jan 1 1943, led with the largest number of Tank Kills in the German Army. In a Pz 4, first with the L24 and then with the L43. Over 90 kills. Routinely knocked out T-34s at ranges of 1200 meters. When he was promoted to Tiger Tanks.(Promoted to TC instead of gunner.) He became cautious as he was concerned not only for himself but was now responsible for an entire crew. Final count of enemy tanks was 120+ unofficial count 190+. Majority in a Pz 4. Can one discount "Crew Skill" in comparing equal weapon platforms? C.G.

No Aevans First Rich will not address an earlier post contradicting his "Vast" knowledgs about weapons. and second. 4th armored fought in two major actions....both times losing all their tanks. Break out in France and Sing Sing (Forgive the Sing Sing comment can't remember actual battle name.) Losses occur in "Battle" operations. 4th was not involved in actions EVERY single DAY. Rich tries to account the 4th's losses as every day attrition. Not with two actions deciding numbers of Tanks available. Ordinance lagged behind in reporting losses. Rich Belittled EVERY single Armor vet as being mislead by interviewers propoganda while not knowing any of them. Certain things remain ingrained in vets memories which cannot be disputed. He tries to say that only 12th Army group kept records of % of Reserve Tanks. May be true, but he needs to talk to Joe DeMarco which has the war records of % reserve tank strength for every single US Armored Division in the war. Paints a different picture of what Rich claims. I believe he doesn't know of these reports and replied off the fly again. C.G.

Tsk Tsk Rich Shows your knowledge is not infallible. You just impunged a WW2 vets recollection and then provided proof that his recollections were right. as you would say WTF

There is a distinct dissconnect between what was reported as compared to what actually occured. Try actually talking to Vets of 4th Armor. They have a completely different recall of the 4th's glorious victories. The only difference between them and their German Counterparts was number of reserve tanks brought up to replace losses. As Tom Sator(4th Armored Vet)said. "The only difference was we replaced all of our lost tanks in 2 to 3 days. While the Germans took sheesh...forever." I actually tried to pin Tom down on losses for 4th Armor and he said they lost "ALL" their tanks. Quite a quote for 1 37th armor vet who served under Creighton Abrams. Would like a reply to your misunderstanding of 2 lber deception in N Africa and Size misconceptions between German and US guns. For the number of rounds fired before Brewing up for the Sherman. Those numbers were brought up by a distinguished author in disscussions about the Sherman. Kinda like the life expectancy numbers for the T-34....7 minutes.

LOL Ken Guess the Tiger Panic was false. Why was all enemy Tanks ID'ed as "Tigers"

This is an "Armored" forum....The topic is direct comparison between the Pz IV and the Sherman. Are you defending the Hi-jack of a topic? While granted, a comparison in tank doctrine contributes to tank design, a flippant remark to the means that a topic is relegated to Industrial practices and implementation is beyond the range of this topic. Or maybe you are frightened by the fact that the Germans built an all around tank (albeit through evolution) than an exploit/pursuit design. C.G

What are you talking about? PZ IV readiness rates were at 80%. Pattons 3rd Army Shermans were down to 25%. What the Germans missed and Americans got right were "LOGISTICS" 4th Armored Division in the Break out in Normandy were credited with the destruction of 2 German "depleted" Panzer divisions. What they don't tell you is that 4th Armored lost all their tanks. Reflected in % of reserve strength. A statistic kept through out the entire war. A statistic kept showed that the Sherman got less than 10 rounds out of its barrel before it was brewed up. C.G.

May I simplify the whole argument? First, Doctrine played the major role in US Armor Design. Armor was to be used as an exploitation force, wrecking havoc in the enemy's rear. The Sherman, to put it bluntly, was an exploitation and pursuit tank. The lessons hammered home in the Pre-War "Manuevers" were the main contributing factors in designing a tank for the US Army.Why else would it be designed to be so reliable. Second, Something had to be deployed on the Flanks of the Breakthroughs. So Tank Destroyers were brought into play, to keep the Enemy Armor from crashing the Break Through. AT towed guns were not fast enough to keep up with an armored break through. Third, Doctrine between the two branches evolved; due to lessons learned. TD units were actually called in to fight off German Armor to let the Sherman do what it did best. Manuever and exploit weaknesses in Enemy Defenses and Attacks. Not to mention that the TD Branch were the best gunned vehicles to do the job against German armor, while the Sherman's job was to never take on enemy armor head on. Can we now get back on topic? I have been in both Pz IV and Every Sherman varient except the Firefly and would love to put my 2 cents in. C.G.

Thanks Echo Noticed a difference between Lapua OAL and Hornady OAL. Scenar OAL is listed at 3.681, Hornady at 3.550. Makes a difference in CUP Pressure. Got a chrono. No Chamber Gage. Question, How do you seat a spire point against Lands? Tried that with my 223 varmint gun and gave up.(Changed velocity as bullet seat depth allowed more expansion room and thus less pressure for same amount of powder.) Ruger Engineer told me not to go over spec. C.G.

Thanks guys Seems my home PC downloads the site. So now have cartridge length,Overall Length, but still searching for Hodgdon 4831sc info. Still have time as I am still building gun. Precision mounted a Warner Rail, TRG Bi-pod, and Muzzle Brake. And as I am a bit of a Pussy, am looking to how to mount a Mercury Recoil Reducer into the stock. May be able to put it into the removeable cheek stock. Scope will be a custom built US Optics SN-3 3.8 to 22 mag with a custom built reticle. Once again Guys....Thanks C.G.

What works really good is a couple days soak in a coffee can full of an Industrial Penetrant called "Kroil." Using Rubber gloves, scrub the rusted section with "Scotchbrite". Leaving it immersed in the "Kroil" while scrubbing. Repeat with fresh "Kroil" until desired results. Cheap effective way. For more stubborn pitting, dry clean with DeGreaser spray after Kroil bath and scrub. Then put in a bead Blaster and blast it. Worth a shot for initial attempt. C.G.

Thanks for the reply but link will not download. Thanks again C.G.